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  #11  
Old 09-19-2007, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by joy1490 View Post
For God so LOVED the WORLD...John 3:16....(that's sinners too). Romans 9:13 is speaking of Esau, not all Sinners... God hates SIN, not His own creation. Why would HE create something that HE hates? Psalm5:4-5 is speaking of Eliphaz, please explain where it says that God hates sinners. Be encouraged in the LORD!
lol lol lol lol lol look where in the bible do For God so LOVED the WORLD that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16. says god love sinner ok oks. Romans 9:13 he was speaking to not only Esau, ok oks. ... Psalm5:4-5 God hates sinners.
_________________love god ok oks._

Last edited by kezia297; 09-20-2007 at 01:02 AM..
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2007, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kezia297 View Post
lol lol lol lol lol look where in the bible do For God so LOVED the WORLD that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16. says god love sinner ok oks. Romans 9:13 he was speaking to not only Esau, ok oks. ... Psalm5:4-5 God hates sinners.
_________________love god ok oks._
good kezia
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2007, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by APOSTOLIC_ARBITER View Post
I'm a little confused, I guess. What is all this talk about "Either you believe the Bible or you do not"??? Where in the Bible does it state that a TRIUNE GOD came to Moses. Please point me to the scripture that says that because I would surely like to read it for myself.

I am inclined to agree that the world has the WRONG GOD and that we should love the things GOD loves and HATE the things GOD HATES. That doesn't mean we have to become some kind of WAR MONGERING FUNDAMENTALISTS either. Sorry, I guess I'm just too Canadian to understand this sort of thinking. My JESUS knows Who HE IS and I DON'T think I have the WRONG GOD. I just think it is a bit hypocritical to be telling people stuff that isn't in the BIBLE and in the same breath say that they either believe what is in the BIBLE or they DON'T. Well, there is my take on it. GOD BLESS YA'LL

A.A.
I maybe misunderstanding what Jabez is saying, but Triune (trinity) I believe He is talking about the Angel of the Lord. In Exodus 3:2-4

2And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Who was the Angel of the Lord? Just about every Christian College teaches this is a preincarnate of Jesus Christ.

3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Now in Verse 4 you will see that God is calling to Moses from the Midst of the Bush. But in Verse 2 it states it was the Angel of the Lord is in the bush. This is where the trinity comes in. Angel of the Lord who is Jesus preincarnate speaking as God in the burning bush.

Here is an article that I found to maybe explain better that I can through a forum. (Im good talking face to face just not on these forums lol)

http://www.gotquestions.org/angel-of-the-Lord.html

God Bless
Gabe
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2007, 02:29 PM
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God does not hate the sinner because he does not hate anyone. he hates the sin or behavior but loves the person.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2008, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Telika View Post
I also wanted to add this scripture that says that God's wrath changed when Jesus died
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Romans 5:7-10
I'm not sure I understand what point you are trying to make! GOD is the same clearly he "changes not!" ...

For those will be days of God's vengeance, and the prophetic words of the Scriptures will be fulfilled. Luke 21:22 (Does that sound like GOD will show love?) These are the words of JESUS himself!

They will be brutally killed by the sword or sent away as captives to all the nations of the world. And Jerusalem will be conquered and trampled down by the Gentiles until the age of the Gentiles comes to an end. Luke 21:24

I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these events have taken place.

This is JESUS Christ talking about his Fathers GOD plan for the world! Does this sound like GOD is going to show his LOVE? Why would GOD show vengeance to those he loves?

Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever.
"Watch out! Don't let me find you living in careless ease and drunkenness, and filled with the worries of this life. Don't let that day catch you unaware, as in a trap. For that day will come upon everyone living on the earth. Keep a constant watch. And pray that, if possible, you may escape these horrors and stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:33-36

Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe to those who disobeyed, but kind to you as you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22 GOD is not only about love! He is Harsh and Judgemental and his words last forever! He changes not! He gave us Jesus in order to become right, but clearly some do not listen and they will suffer for their decision. I seriously doubt GOD loves those he will send into damnation. I dont see GODS wrath changing in these verses at all!
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Old 01-31-2008, 11:09 AM
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Here is my 2 cents on this..............
First of all, man was not created in Sin, God didnt create anyone to sin, HE created man in His image.
satan came to kill steal and to destroy, it was when adam and eve fell for temptation and partook of the forbidden fruit, that was when sin entered in.
so in my oppinion, God does not hate anyone, including the sinner, He does however HATE SIN.
satan is the father of sin, so that makes him the sinner of all sinners, i beleive what God is saying, is that he hates satan.
after all it was'nt in mans nature to sin untill satan came along and tempted. so God hates the sinner that is in everyone but he doe'nst hate the man/woman, the sinner is satan in someone, using someone.
all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God,,, does this mean God hates his own creation? i think not.
we are instructed to,"be ye Holy as your Father in heaven is Holy".......... yet we all sin,,,,,,,if we are to be honest here. i know we all dont malishously,intentionally set out to sin, but we do sin, does that make us a "sinner " and does that then mean we are not holy and that God now hates us? i think not.
the Bible says. God is the same, yesterday,today , and forever. if He so loved the world then, he so loves the world now. God hates satan (sin) father of sin. we cant be a sinner and be Holy at the same time... yet we still sin.
(sinner= one who practices sin, enjoys sin, lives for the world) Christians will sin , as long as we are in fleshly bodies. but we have an advocate to the Father, that if we should stumble, if we should repent=(go the opposite way) and ask,He will forgive us our sin. occasionaly making a mistake and sinning is not the same as being a sinner.
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  #17  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LivingSacrifice View Post
Here is my 2 cents on this..............
First of all, man was not created in Sin, God didnt create anyone to sin, HE created man in His image.
satan came to kill steal and to destroy, it was when adam and eve fell for temptation and partook of the forbidden fruit, that was when sin entered in.
so in my oppinion, God does not hate anyone, including the sinner, He does however HATE SIN.
satan is the father of sin, so that makes him the sinner of all sinners, i beleive what God is saying, is that he hates satan.
after all it was'nt in mans nature to sin untill satan came along and tempted. so God hates the sinner that is in everyone but he doe'nst hate the man/woman, the sinner is satan in someone, using someone.
all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God,,, does this mean God hates his own creation? i think not.
we are instructed to,"be ye Holy as your Father in heaven is Holy".......... yet we all sin,,,,,,,if we are to be honest here. i know we all dont malishously,intentionally set out to sin, but we do sin, does that make us a "sinner " and does that then mean we are not holy and that God now hates us? i think not.
the Bible says. God is the same, yesterday,today , and forever. if He so loved the world then, he so loves the world now. God hates satan (sin) father of sin. we cant be a sinner and be Holy at the same time... yet we still sin.
(sinner= one who practices sin, enjoys sin, lives for the world) Christians will sin , as long as we are in fleshly bodies. but we have an advocate to the Father, that if we should stumble, if we should repent=(go the opposite way) and ask,He will forgive us our sin. occasionaly making a mistake and sinning is not the same as being a sinner.
Clearly many of you are taking this way out of context! First of all...whare did I say that GOD created anyone in Sin?

Many passages in the New Testament talk of God sending certain classes of people to Hell. God would never send anyone He loved to Hell. When one has ultimately rejected God's love, God stops loving them and places them where they can be of no disturbance to those who have completed their process of acceptance of His love, that is, those who have reached eternal life.

It should be obvious that God hates evil together with those who have deliberately chosen evil. If one believes that God has not and will not ever send a human being to Hell, then such person is a heretic and is under the penalty of automatic excommunication.


"Many are invited, but few are chosen." [Mt. 22:14]
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few." [Mt. 7:13-14]

Since Jesus made it clear in the Gospels that over half of the population will go to Hell, then it must be acknowledged that God hates at least 50% of those who die (everyone will die). It should also be obvious that the fallen angels lost God's love and became hated by God who then took vengeance against them. Many read the Word of God without making an effort to understand what is being said. Jesus often did not speak plainly so that those not worthy of salvation would not have understanding of His messages and be saved.) One also might reflect upon Zechariah 13:8-9.

Learn then that I, I alone, am God, and there is no god besides me. It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds and heal them, and from my hand there is no rescue. "To the heavens I raise my hand and swear: As surely as I live forever, I will sharpen my flashing sword, and my hand shall lay hold of my quiver. "With vengeance I will repay my foes and requite those who hate me." " [Dt. 32:39-41]


"You are not a god who delights in evil; no wicked person finds refuge with you; the arrogant cannot stand before you. You [God] hate all who do evil;" [Ps. 5:4-5]

"Into your hands I commend my spirit; you will redeem me, LORD, faithful God. You hate those who serve worthless idols, but I trust in the LORD." [Ps. 31:5-6]

"Your throne, O God, stands forever; your royal scepter is a scepter for justice. You love justice and hate wrongdoing; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellow kings. [Ps. 45:6-7]

"For I hate divorce, says the LORD, the God of Israel, And covering one's garment with injustice, says the LORD of hosts; You must then safeguard life that is your own, and not break faith." [Mal. 2:16]

N.T. "Your throne, O God, stands forever and ever; and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. You {Jesus} loved justice and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions"; [Heb. 1:8-9]

N.T. "But you have this in your favor: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I {Jesus} also hate. " ' "Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the victor I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God." ' [Rv. 2:6-7]

"As long as the Israelites did not sin in the sight of their God, they prospered, for their God, who hates wickedness, was with them. But when they deviated from the way he prescribed for them, they were ground down steadily, more and more, by frequent wars, and finally taken as captives into foreign lands. The temple of their God was razed to the ground, and their cities were occupied by their enemies." [Judith 5:17-18]

"Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice." [Sir.{AKA: Ecclesiasticus} 15:13-14]

Yes, we all have sinned, yes we must repent but then we must never do that sin again! For if we continue to sin knowing it is wrong...well...

"God must be true, though every human being is a liar, as it is written: "That you may be justified in your words, and conquer when you are judged." But if our wickedness provides proof of God's righteousness, what can we say? Is God unjust, humanly speaking, to inflict his wrath? Of course not! For how else is God to judge the world?" [Rm. 3:4-6]


Do I take the Bible Literally? YOU Better Believe It!
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  #18  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by APOSTOLIC_ARBITER View Post
I'm a little confused, I guess. What is all this talk about "Either you believe the Bible or you do not"??? Where in the Bible does it state that a TRIUNE GOD came to Moses. Please point me to the scripture that says that because I would surely like to read it for myself.

I am inclined to agree that the world has the WRONG GOD and that we should love the things GOD loves and HATE the things GOD HATES. That doesn't mean we have to become some kind of WAR MONGERING FUNDAMENTALISTS either. Sorry, I guess I'm just too Canadian to understand this sort of thinking. My JESUS knows Who HE IS and I DON'T think I have the WRONG GOD. I just think it is a bit hypocritical to be telling people stuff that isn't in the BIBLE and in the same breath say that they either believe what is in the BIBLE or they DON'T. Well, there is my take on it. GOD BLESS YA'LL

A.A.
I'm not a "war mongering fundamentalist" I'm a GODLY man, who believes in the Bible 100%

While it is certain that God does love –this is the reason Jesus died on the cross– it is equally certain that God not only loves, but that He also Hates.

Some synonyms for hate (to detest) are: venom, rancor, revenge, malignity, abomination, abhorrence, animosity, abhor, execrate, scorn, despise, look at with loathing, spit upon, anathematize, curse, swear eternal enmity, dislike intensely, shudder at, have enough of, be repelled by, feel repulsion for, have no use for, object to, bear malice, bear a grudge against, spurn, shrink or recoil from, disparage, shun, nauseate, tread or trample underfoot, denounce, resent, curse, be sick or tired of, reject, revolt against, hold cheap, deride, have no taste or stomach for, disfavor, look down upon, feel malice toward, be malevolent, hold in contempt, be disgusted with, view with horror, owe a grudge to.


Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient." [Eph. 5:5-6]

"Out of his mouth came a sharp sword to strike the nations. He (Jesus)will rule them with an iron rod, and he himself will tread out in the wine press the wine of the fury and wrath of God the almighty." [Rev. 19:15]

"Delay not your conversion to the LORD, put it not off from day to day; For suddenly his wrath flames forth; at the time of vengeance, you will be destroyed." Ec: 5:7


"Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory,
but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful,
and there is no wrong in him." [Jn. 7:18]

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." [Mt. 25:41]

"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom
all who cause others to sin and all evildoers." [Mt. 13:41]

While no quantity or quality of works can substitute for the salvation act accomplished once by Jesus on the cross – that allowed access to Heaven to those judged worthy (Matthew 25:32), they are necessary witnesses to that love of God which is required for one to enter Heaven. Again, the mercy of God has been made obtainable only through the redemptive act of Jesus. Prior to this act no one was permitted entry into Heaven no matter how worthy they might be deemed to have been including Able, Enoch, Abraham, Joseph, Moses and many others. The ultimate mercy –redemption from the sin of Adam that caused separation from God– is received only by those who have put the fullness of God's Word (commands - direct or implicit) into practice by actions of faith.


To be a recipient of salvation/mercy one must sincerely develop a full love of God and pursue Him through the practice of justice that can be understood only through the acquisition of spiritual truth. One must develop a sincere interest in God, listen –accept and practice– to His word, and grow in God's love. God is love for those who love truth and practice justice and mercy. This is the true meaning of the phrase, "God is love." One should never mistake the statement, "God is Love," to mean that God does not condemn those who do not seek His love according to His (God's) definition of love while sincerely seeking His mercy.


Yes I take the Bible very seriously!
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  #19  
Old 02-01-2008, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Telika View Post
I also wanted to add this scripture that says that God's wrath changed when Jesus died
7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Romans 5:7-10
GODS Wrath changed? So, are you saying we will not be judged? Please explain!
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joy1490 View Post
For God so LOVED the WORLD...John 3:16....(that's sinners too). Romans 9:13 is speaking of Esau, not all Sinners... God hates SIN, not His own creation. Why would HE create something that HE hates? Psalm5:4-5 is speaking of Eliphaz, please explain where it says that God hates sinners. Be encouraged in the LORD!
Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.

Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,
19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."


Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Are these verses hard to read? Do they make you feel uncomfortable? They should. God hates sin. But, He does not punish sin. He punishes the sinner. Sin cannot be tied up and thrown into a fire. It cannot be put in a box or glued to a stick. It is rebellion. It is rebellion in the heart. It is breaking God's Law. Sin occurs inside the heart and mind of people. Therefore, God must punish the sinner. Why? Because He is both Holy and Just and the person who sins offends God. God's Holy and Just character will not allow Him to ignore this offense.
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